Open letter to Indiana Gregg

Recently the musician Indiana Gregg and her label Gr8pop had an online spat with The Pirate Bay: Gr8pop’s Ian Morrow asked TPB to take down some torrents, and TPB in their usual joking way refused. The events were detailed in an article on TorrentFreak.

Subsequently TorrentFreak posted a response by Gregg to the whole affair (the response is also posted on Gregg’s blog). Gregg’s response was detailed, makes some valid points and (in my opinion) some invalid ones, and deserves to be taken seriously. Unfortunately some of the replies to it on TorrentFreak were both infantile and grossly disrespectful, a response which Gregg doesn’t deserve. So I thought I’d write a detailed and considered response with replies to her points seriously and respectfully.

Pieces writen by Gregg are indented; my response is underneath. For reasons of space I’m not quoting Gregg’s whole article here, just those bits I’m replying to…

Why can we go all over the world on the internet without a Passport? Why are cybernauts allowed to steal goods from the store ‘shelves’ and ‘shop windows’ and justify it as ‘sharing’? Since the birth of the internet, people have been hacking software,stealing music, books, films, television shows, credit card numbers, ebay accounts, IP addresses… you name it, if it’s out there and can be downloaded, it’s being virtually stolen from under your nose.

Is the internet really that much ‘bigger’ than the ‘real’ world? I think not. I believe that in the near future, we will all be using our internet passports. If the government can do it in the real world, what’s stopping them from monitoring this new ‘wild west’ phenomenon of the internet in every town, city, state and country.

What’s stopping them is encryption. Imagine two internet users — we’ll call them Alice and Bob. Alice encypts a message on her computer, and sends it to Bob, who decrypts it at his end. Neither Alice’s ISP nor Bob’s ISP know what’s in the message, so they have no way of monitoring what’s been sent. If Alice and Bob are exchanging illegal copies of files, no-one else will be any the wiser.

You might reply “Well then, simply ban encryption”. But a lot of traffic on the Internet has to be encrypted, for example financial transactions, medical or otherwise confidential information, and internal communications by any company that operates at more than one site. For example, I operate a web server located several hundred miles away and use encrypted communication to update the information on it; I have to encrypt the communication because otherwise anyone could find outh the passwords and hack the site. Many millions of people use encryption every day, and to ban it on the Internet would cripple the economy of any country that tried. And if one country, say the USA, banned encryption, would the others all follow them? I could possibly imagine Europe acceeding to US pressure, but it’s not very likely that China, Russia, Brazil, India, Venezuela, etc all would.

Thousands upon thousands of websites, sharing sites, and torrent sites exist. These websites are making a constant steady flow of income by using other people’s goods…they are pointing people to the goods (music) for free and selling masses of advertisement because people come to ‘leech’ the goods…these sites are basically allowing people to steal and destroy the music industry (which is in fact like shooting themselves in their own foot). The sites themselves claim to be ‘legal’. It is the user’s responsibility not to share copyrighted files.

There are hundreds of different legal jurisdictions. In some of them, torrent-tracking websites (such as The Pirate Bay) may well be legal, for all I know (I’m not a lawyer). TBP are currently being prosecuted in Sweden, so we will all have to wait and see how that turns out.

How easy would it be to simply find all these people who are illegally ’sharing’ and slap a lawsuit on them. They can do that with a virtual push of a button. How hard do you think it will be for the ISP’s to hand over your Internet passport over to the new frontier police? They can see how much you’ve ’shared’ and potentially fine every single torrent user.

Firstly, bear in mind that BitTorrent it not itself illegal and there are plenty of legal uses for it — if I was going to distribute large amounts of data on the Internet (I have a business plan that involves just this) I’d quite likely use BitTorrent in order to reduce my bandwidth bills.

Then consider, if finding and fining every user of BitTorrent and other P2P software was so easy, why isn’t it being done already? Millions use BitTorrent and I’m sure plenty of music and motion picture companies would like to get their hands on these people’s money.

If someone is running BitTorrent and downloading a particular file, they won’t know the IP addresses of everyone else using BitTorrent; they won’t even know the addresses of eveyone else sharing that file; they will know all the IP addresses that they are downloading or uploading parts of the file to, which may be 10-20 IP addresses (out of a total of millions of BitTorrent users).

Media companies and others who want to “spy” on what BitTorrent users are doing typically run a modified version of the software (i.e. the BitTorrent client), that records all the IP addresses that they communicatw with on the protocol. This spying is not always very accurate; recently laser printers were accused of P2P downloading.

It’s likely that the next generation of P2P software will evolve to make this type of spying impossible. You’ve heard the theory that you’re no more than six handshakes away from everyone else? Well, it’s also true of email. If a next-generation P2P client just talks to people selected from a user’s email address book (or people they instant message with, it’s the same principle), it’ll be no more than 6 hops away from all other P2P users. And since users of such a client would be able to set it up so that it only talks to their friends they consider trustworthy, it’s very hard to see how the RIAA or MPAA could find out who’s downloading a particular file.

The real problem lies in the fact that ’share’ sites are making money by pointing to other people’s copyrighted content… The end user gets it for free… the torrents make money…. And the musicians and artists?? Well, they get to live off of ‘fresh air’. Put simply, musicians will not be able to exist financially in order to create music if income streams are cut off (whether or not a record label comes to play).

As a musician and an independent record-label, I see my livelihood being sucked away every day through file-sharing and torrent sites which are allowing copyright material to flow in and out of their sites.

It’s possible that some musicians may find that they cannot earn a living as musicians, and will have to do something else for a living instead. If that happens, it’s sad, but I think the growth of filesharing is inevitable. For reasons I’ve stated, I don’t think filesharing can realistically be suppressed. People will just have to learn to live with the new reality. That might not be fair, but then live sometimes isn’t fair. (Whether I personally think filesharing is fair is irrelevant, so I won’t address that matter further).

Last year, in a period of two weeks, we tracked and found over 100,000 leechers of my album alone. Since then, we’ve found about 150,000 more, of which I, the artist, who put my heart and soul, time and sweat into an album and raising money to market that album, haven’t received a dime, not one red cent. Full torrent files of a complete album!

I wonder how many of those 250,000 people would have bought the album? Many of my friends have iPods. To fill up an iPod with paid-for music would cost about £20,000. Some of my friends are students or unemployed or on low incomes, and realistically there is no way these people are going to pay 20 grand to fill their iPod up with music. So I suspect that most illegal downloads are from people who wouldn’t have bought the music anyway, and therefore don’t represent lost sales. Some do represent lost sales, of course.

Here’s another funny one…the torrent site’s answer to how musicians are supposed to earn a living is: .. well, musician’s will just need to go out and gig some more in order to make a living. Maybe the band can sell a few more T-shirts, etc. etc.

Perhaps they are right. My personal experience: I’ve not bought a CD in years, but in that time I’ve spent hundred of pounds going to gigs and music festivals.

Well, torrent sites are absolutely NOT leveling the playing field. They are just moving the field and reaping the benefits due to a temporary loophole in the law.

I think you may well be right in that torrent sites are using legal loopholes that soon won’t exist. I also think this will make no difference, because (1) BitTorrent isn’t the only P2P protocol, (2) the other P2P protocols don’t require tracker websites the way BitTorrent does, and (3) the next generation of BitTorrent clients may not require tracker websites anyway.

I assume that the torrent sites are planning to be adaptable pretty soon then, considering the number of pending lawsuits from pretty strong and intelligent companies who have not only proven their adaptability to change, but have changed the world as we know it (companies like Microsoft, for example).

I realise you’re not an IT professional, but if you were you probably wouldn’t be using Microsoft as an example of an innovative company well able to change.

Please.. spare us this kind of rhetoric guys. With the likes of Microsoft, Prince, and the IFPI going after you, any outsider might begin to wonder when YOU plan to adapt to ‘change’. It’s becoming evident that your business model is a sinking ship.

Bear in mind that IFPI/RIAA have been going after filesharing since the 1990s (remember Napster?) and over that time it’s continued to grow enormously. Why has it grown? Because computers and bandwidth keep getting cheaper, meaning there are more people on the Internet and they can communicate more easily. These trends are bound to continue.

It may well be that The Pirate Bay’s business model is “a sinking ship”, but even if it is, that will not stop filesharing, as I’ve explained above.

I’ve already detailed some ways in which P2P software is likely to change over the coming years, so I’ll not go over that again.

Free promotion? Basically, torrents are promoting music that has ‘already been promoted’, so it’s not ‘free promotion’.

Really? I’d never heard of you until your recent fracas with TPB. Now I’ve heard some of your music (on your website, not downloaded from BitTorrent, I might add) I quite like it.

This entry was posted in Britain, computers, digital rights, economics, filesharing, MPAA, RIAA, technology and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

45 Responses to Open letter to Indiana Gregg

  1. Anon. says:

    My response to her (directly):

    Today I read your open letter to the filesharing community on TorrentFreak ( ) and frankly I am shocked and appalled at your attitude and behaviour to the internet. The internet is one of the last remaining free (as in libre, not gratis) mediums that people now possess to transfer data and information. Your idea of some ‘internet police’ and the need for ‘passports’ is frankly shocking and leads me to an image of a dystopian world where every one of our actions are monitored and recorded for use by the government and big corporations. Even if filesharing is damaging the music industry, it is far more important to have a free internet where people who are oppressed in countries like Zimbabwe and North Korea can speak out against the regime.

    In fact, speaking out against the regime is what filesharing is doing. You spoke of CHANGE (annoyingly in caps), yet it is the music industry that is unable to adapt – even now you are trying to sell people data on discs of plastic, a technology over 20 years old. People cannot put this on their iPods or portable music players because changing the media would be illegal. If your industry cannot CHANGE that it will fail; adapt, evolve or die.

    Torrent sites have been one of the fastest adapting technologies ever – filesharing has come a long way since napster and eD2K. Even recently thepiratebay has added SSH tunnelling to its tracker to combat the new Swedish tracking law, literally days after its ratification was announced.

    You endlessly compare filesharing to stealing, similar to the “You wouldn’t steal a….” advertising several years ago. Copyright infringement is not Stealing. One is a civil offence, the other criminal. Copyright infringement is downloading (“copying”) for 100’s of other peers – the information is conserved, then replicated. You cannot steal information. Stealing would be actually taking a physical object, like a CD or even the master you recorded on, something that actually has worth. A stream of 1’s and 0’s has no worth and when encrypted or transcoded does not resemble the original in any way. Similarly torrent sites are not breaking the law – they only contain checksum and file information – a bit like Google or a telephone network.

    You say that over 150,000 people have downloaded your album, which can only be a good thing. These people would not have bought your album anyway. It’s FREE publicity! If anything you should be paying thepiratebay, mininova etc for spreading your music. Even I through filesharing discovered your music (I didn’t even know you existed before your heinous comments). Today prices of albums are ridiculously high – how do you expect people to buy them £8/$16 is just not worth it for the music.

    If you are comparing files in torrents to “real” items, like CD’s, then they must be sold and resold like them or the metaphor fails. This means that if I buy a CD or music files it becomes mine – I own it, not you or the record company, me. I can do whatever I want with this information – sell it, redistribute it or even share it to hundreds of other people. It’s mine and I decide what to do with it.

    The universe has been defined as having up to 3 types of civilisation>: I,II and III, divided up into 10 decimals. We are currently a I.7 civilisation and to continue to I.8 information must be free. We can see this in the ‘open source’ movement and the proliferation of the internet.

    Maybe you should watch an you may understand better.

    Finally, torrent sites to do NOT make money. Torrents are downloaded for free and the advert revenue barely even pays for the servers’ bandwidth. organises over 40% (2005) of European web traffic, with 1000’s of bandwidth intensive tracker requests a second. Peter Sunde and co make no money from, as any turnover is put back into the site, kind of like Wikipedia.

    Have you read any of the comments on TF? I think they convey the general mood of everyone.

    I have listened to your music and quite like it. It is your blatantly wrong views on the internet that I disagree with and the fact that you are a millionaire and want MORE money. I have a mortgage and have to slave away in a lab over streams nanoparticles to earn my money. What hard work have you ever done?

  2. gUNTHER says:

    I pose you 2 questions.

    1: Imagine you are a gifted individual that can actually make good music and can also actually sing. You’ve spent uncountable hours during your life developing these talents and spent a ton of money shelling out for lessons and schooling and instruments. You realize musical entertianment is your calling in life and want to make it a career and hopefully a profitable one.

    Given the state of the recording industry today, and the rampant use and abuse of file sharing, explain to your readers the steps you would take to make this career unfold and how file sharing being a part of the ride will actually help make you money and then *sustain* your income through your career.

    2: What makes you feel that because you cannot afford something you still feel you have a right to obtain it without question?

  3. cabalamat says:


    yes there is also the civil liberties anti-police-state argument regarding this. But I didn’t want to make that one — for a start it would take a whole ‘nother post.

    The point I was trying to make is that the RIAA’s business model is broken, shattered into a thousand pieces, it doesn’t matter in the long term whether they pass an ACTA treaty, or how many filesharers they fine — all the king’s horses and all the king’s men cannot put their business model back together again.

  4. cabalamat says:

    Gunther: 1: Imagine you are a gifted individual that can actually make good music and can also actually sing. You’ve spent uncountable hours during your life developing these talents and spent a ton of money shelling out for lessons and schooling and instruments. You realize musical entertianment is your calling in life and want to make it a career and hopefully a profitable one. Given the state of the recording industry today, and the rampant use and abuse of file sharing, explain to your readers the steps you would take to make this career unfold and how file sharing being a part of the ride will actually help make you money and then *sustain* your income through your career.

    I don’t know. I’m not a musician, and not an expert on the music industry. However, having said that:

    (i) I don’t think the world owes me a living. Specifically I don’t think I have some sort of right to earn a living in a particular way, if I can’t make money that way. If I can’t earn my living as a musician, I’ll do something else instead; I won’t feel hard done by.

    (ii) I know plenty of people who are musicians, who play in bands or have done so. The vast majority of these people don’t earn the majority of their income by music. Now it may well be that the people I know are not a representative sample, but it’s nevertheless a sample that suggests to me that most musicians are hnot professional musicians (i.e. don’t earn the majority of their income from it). So I would probably realise that the chances of me making it are not too good.

    (iii) I would probably give being a professional musician a go all the same — after all, what would life be if you didn’t try out new things?

    (iv) I wouldn’t expect to earn the majority of my money through sales of CDs and downloaded music. I’d turn more to live performances and sales of merchandise (which may well include vinyl — which I’ve always liked more as a physical object than the rather soulless, tacky and nasty CDs).

  5. OG says:

    I took the direct approach and contacted her via MySpaz. You can bore yourself to death reading the replys here;

    In response to Gunther:

    Its a dog eat dog world. Filesharing does not mean artists stand no chance of making it. What it will do is make it more difficult for crap artists to peddle their wares to unsuspecting consumers. There is plenty of talent willing to give away their music for free, and that is being taken advantage of using the likes of bit torrent. Filesharing networks are enabling more people to allow others to hear their content and that means along side the illegal downloads of over priced commercial music is a whole new world of raw talent embracing the technology instead of whining about it. Fact is, if you are good, filesharing wont stop you from selling albums, if you are crap, no one will care, but may download your stuff anyway, and you never know, someone somewhere might actually like it enough to buy it. If you are not good enough to make a living from whatever talent it is you think you have, get a real job.

  6. cabalamat says:

    Gunther: 2: What makes you feel that because you cannot afford something you still feel you have a right to obtain it without question?

    Your question contains a supposition, that is, the supposition that I think that if I cannot afford something I still feel I have a right to it without question.

    That supposition is both (i) untrue, and (ii) derogatory. It is therefore of the same form as asking when I stopped beating my wife.

    You, Gunther — email (though that’s probably fake) and ip address — are a stupid and rude person. Oh, and when did you stop beating your wife, eh, Gunther?

  7. cabalamat says:

    OG: Its a dog eat dog world.

    I disagree. Your characterization may be true of a Mogadishu slum, but it’s less true of Britain.

    Filesharing does not mean artists stand no chance of making it.


    What it will do is make it more difficult for crap artists to peddle their wares to unsuspecting consumers.

    It never has been the case that all talented people succeed, or all untalented people fail. Time and chance have their place in all human activities. Whether the technological environment of the 2010s will allow more people to make their living as musicians than that of, say, the 1980s, is a question to which I don’t know the answer — it seems equally likely either way.

  8. OG says:

    Subjective. What you consider to be talent may not be the next guys idea of talent. Its not a universal constant. If enough people think an artist is talented, they succeed, likewise, if no one thinks they have talent, they will fail. This is even more the case now as it has ever been due to the sheer ammount of ‘talent’ available. Where in the past so called talent may have been rammed down the throats of consumers, and with a very limited pool from which to choose from, it was inevitable that a majority of those would make themselves and their recording labels a substantial ammount of money (eg. Madonna vs Martika). The logistics involved in ‘filesharing’ back in the 80’s meant sales were assured. Now however, control is no longer in the hands of the chosen few. Fighting filesharing is perhaps now less about securing revenue as it is regaining control (and ultimately revenue). Unfortunately, with this new level on control comes a whole host of other issues. The likes of the RIAA and the MPAA will not be happy untill they have control of the internet, and that would be very bad for everyone. Seems like it is the filesharer in the forefront of this battle, where the victor would be everyone. Meanwhile, those perched on their moral high horse are all too willing to sacrifice their freedoms and to hell with the consiquences. I know what side of the fence I’m sitting, I dont mind buying things I like, but not at the expence of selling everyone else down the river.

  9. Herman Munster says:

    All I can say is that Indiana has created her 15 minutes of fame, and unfortunately for her, it’s not because of the quality of her music, it’s because of her stance on P2P, and specifically Pirate Bay.

    Will she sell additional albums because of all of this additional publicity? No idea, but I’d never heard of her before, and I have now. I think my biggest problem is that I don’t want something for free, but I’d like to have it for a fair price, and in a format I could use forever. Give people a better way to buy music, and you will see a decrease in piracy – look at ITMS – when they finally ditch all the DRM, life for me will be fine.

    cabalamat, very nice blog, and I agree with more of your points than I disagree with – so I’ve now got a new bookmark.

  10. Indiana says:

    good points. Pleased to hear someone rational arguing those points. From my point of view, I’m in the business of provoking thought.
    I hear you. I’m not sure that encryption is stopping regulation on the internet though. But, it’s one thing that can stop getting ‘found out’.. Sure it is.

    All freedom comes at a price. It’s a universal law… absolutely nothing is ‘free’. Philosophers have argued this point throughout the ages. There is a price for everything (including fresh air).

    We all need to think about the price, the consequences or our actions, and the potential result. It’s our responsibility. What we do or chose not to do influences our future (both personally and universally).

    My blog was introduced to provoke thought. I clearly knew that many people would respond emotionally. That’s ok. Most people do react that way. Maybe though, by interjecting and responding rather than sitting back and letting everybody else make decisions for us, we can come to a solution.

    How silly am I to debate with a big torrent search engine? Well, how silly are all the people who have opinions and don’t act.

    I didn’t chose this debate. They chose me. They brought it to the public, so, I answered them. Most people only work in an attitude of “what is right”… or “what is wrong”. Either “Win”.. or “Lose”… well, maybe we should start thinking about the nuances. You know, that place that makes everyone of us different and unique. What if we were to consider things like “negotiation”, “solution”, you know, put a bit of water in everybody’s wine. Let everybody sit back and think.


  11. Indiana says:

    simply for the record (for anon at the top of the comments)

    I would like to emphatically reply to this idea that people have about money. Money is most certainly a concept. The fact that many people are debating about whether I’m a millionaire or not and how ‘greedy’ I must be to ‘want’ more money is the very reason I interjected the thought in the first place… yes, you have fallen into an intentional trap.

    This is ‘anon’s comment:
    I have listened to your music and quite like it. It is your blatantly wrong views on the internet that I disagree with and the fact that you are a millionaire and want MORE money. I have a mortgage and have to slave away in a lab over streams nanoparticles to earn my money. What hard work have you ever done?

    Let’s discuss this issue. First of all, do you think that I have had life dealt to me on a silver platter? (go read my biography. In fact, go and investigate any aspect of my life you want to. See how I grew up in a rural community in a family of four children in the middle of nowhere. See what life dealt to me from early on. ) How did I get to go to University in my original country of birth? Was it because my dad had a car accident and my mother’s alchoholic father had a stroke and because the church donated food and clothes to my family? Do you think that the people who create ideas and work to develop those ideas and find investors simply have rich parents?

    You have a mortgage to pay. You have to ‘slave away’ in a lab.
    What if you changed that statement and said ” I am paying my mortgage and I work an honest job for now. However, I have ideas and I’m using my extra time to develop those ideas and turn them into something I think can help society. Then, I’m going to talk to my banker and some local business people and accountants and ask them how they can help me find investors for my ideas. ”

    The way you think about your life. The statements you make about your life. How you proceed and act to change your life….. well?

    Now, let’s talk about hard work. Let’s dig really deep. I can tell you about hard work. Any and all of you can send me an email. I don’t hide behind any ‘anonymous’ listing. indy(at)

    Let’s all take some responsibility and take some action. We don’t have to wait for big business to sort out our lives. None of us need to
    pretend to be ‘slaves’ to our mortgage. If you have a mortgage, already, you are blessed. We all have computers. Do you understand how privileged we are. of course we are.

    Now we have a responsibilty. Our actions are important. I’ve already made a comment about one of the responsibilities. If you are making comments… well, do something about it….

    take action.


  12. Beaver says:

    Passports? Borders? Customs? Police? Oppression? Censorship? Suppression of dissent?

    Indiana, you will find that in Burma and North Korea. There, you won’t need Internet, in fact. These countries are essentially free of Internet, so there you can create without those damn pirates distributing your work at no cost to you!

    Start packing today!

    If you move out, everyone here will feel better. And with the amazing help of governments of Burma and North Korea, you will certainly get a creativity boost! It’s a win-win for everyone.

    You see, we are living in 21st century, where the power to create and share is to the people. Everyone is a creator today, and everyone is a holder of copyright. Everyone has a voice.

    You don’t like everyone to have voice. Your industry wants people to become sheeple, little compliant consumers that swallow corporate “product” and only corporate “product”. Or maybe they paid you to write this? But you should have better known that promoting music industry views doesn’t pay: Lars Ulrich of Metallica will never be forgotten.

    It is not a money issue for the industry, but the one of control. We know your biggest threat: it is not folks who passively download at Pirate Bay, but people who create works and share them among themselves. We avoid your 20th century organized crime industry like the plague. Our numbers are growing, as teens become adults.

    Your music industry is fscked. It has no future, has no business model. Those who litigate do not innovate. Your music industry is digging its grave to become extinct and we will do everything to accelerate that process. You need us. We don’t need you. We shall prevail.

    There was a Parliament member Sarmite “Sam” Bulte in Canada who was working against Canadians and on behalf of international entertainment cartels to impose a new copyright law on Canadians. And a minister now, Jim Prentice, is to become Sam Bulte 2.0, to be kicked out on the next federal election (whenever that happens). Here is a remix of his PR stunt:

  13. Anynomous says:

    I checked The Pirate Bay, and here is what I found:

    1 seeder 1 leecher on one copy, and ZERO on another. But look at the comments!

    Anyway, if Indiana tried to use a noble name of The Pirate Bay to promote her 2007 album, this is an EPIC FAIL. If not, this is still an EPIC FAIL, if you consider the number of seeds and leechers on “Steal This Film” movie on The Pirate Bay.

    I can’t even figure out where the figures of 100000 and 150000 came from, Indiana. If it is one or two leechers PER DAY and you multiply it by 365, you can get a meagre 730.

  14. Here is another very educating must read for Indiana Gregg:

    When Pigs Fly: The Death of Oink, the Birth of Dissent, and a Brief History of Record Industry Suicide.

    Link above.

  15. Indiana says:

    people, the reason I write to torrent sites to have links to my music taken down has nothing to do with whether or not those people
    would’ve bought my music or not. It has to do with a government agenda. It’s not about labels and artists sueing their fans (that’s just stupid), it’s about governments stepping in and fining people for file-sharing of copyright. That’s what they are planning. You can take the idea of an internet police out of context as much as you like, but, the governments have an interest in this matter. I don’t want my fans to be fined for sharing. I actually thought that they were going to be stepping in sooner than this, so, I started writing to torrent sites a year ago. Also, bear in mind, I didn’t start posting this stuff all over the internet. The Pirate Bay did. I also didn’t ask for my blog to be published by TF… they asked me if they could republish it. I said ok, because since this is the internet, anybody can repost anything anyway. I’m not involved in “the record industry”. I’m an artist who makes music and I’m very grateful for the success I’ve had with it. But, I definitely don’t want any of my fans (or potential fans) to be fined by the government. The G8 summit has just announced their new war on piracy. So, what do you think will happen? Of course they have the resources… You… they will fine the file-sharers. Maybe I’m wrong about it… but, what if I’m right?

  16. Anynomous says:

    So, you are cooperating with the corrupt governments, being owned by large corporations? It’s so cheap! They are the ones screwing you and you help them screwing you. Do you think that you will have a voice if all distribution channels are owned by large corporations? No!

    Anyway, here is another site with another open letter to Indiana Gregg is here:

    also, someone noted that some Wikipedia user claiming to be IanMorrow attempted multiple times to deface the Indiana Gregg article on Wikipedia. User IanMorrow was then banned indefinitely by Wikipedia for making legal threats. But the username does not mean anything, as it might have been some troll too.

  17. Reader's Write says:

    “I don’t want my fans to be fined for sharing.”

    you goddamn lying bitch!
    or do you only want to have the fans of other artists fined?
    Or is it that you NOW don’t want your fan(not plural!) to be fined since you have only one (your overprotective loser new husband that likes to vandalise wikipedia) and that one is not even sharing your work in the first place!

    how do you explain your newest rantings with what you wrote last year?

    you had a frontal lobotomy that alternated your character 180 degrees or what?

    ““Last year, in an article on Sky News, I read that a woman was fined a massive fine for file sharing on the Kazaa network. I thought, great!”

    So this is a person who would take great pleasure in suing her fans into the ground. Any fans of such a vile and vindictive person need to have their heads examined.”

  18. DNS cyberguy says:

    this is her blog from today that I picked up from torrent freak. It’s an interesting read. I also read about the wiki page. it sounds like an ex was involved there.

    I’m just wondering, why are we all so interested. What is it that she is saying that
    has made this so interesting? After reading her blog, I don’t get the feeling that she is cooperating with the big governments at all. Her husband said he sits on a committee for the regeneration of music. These are just artsy people. I can’t work out why I’m fascinated by it all.

  19. DNS cyberguy says:

    I think anonymous guy number 17 is the ex?

    I’ve now got a new idea!

  20. Reader's Write says:

    @18+19 why are you using a different username (DNS cyberguy) now here? Just stick to the one you use at p2pnet (ART)

    Anyway tell us more about your “new idea” please!

    Specially interesting would be your thoughts about what would be the purpose of her german ex husband to delete the content of her wikipedia page under the pseudonym of IANMOROW. That argument of your’s just make no sense!

    If there were vandalism in the form of entering deterogatory stuff or something like that, that might make sense in case of a pissed-off Ex, but writings such as “this page is now closed get your infos at our [official pages]”, that is not stuff of an allegedly disgruntled ex-guy that fucked her once without contraception and it simply makes no sense so claim otherwise.

  21. Anynomous says:

    Indiana wants the government to terrorise its citizens.

    All she will get is Soviet, or rather Post-Soviet Russia, where you pay to organized crime who protects you from police and the government. And if this government comes, I will feel no pity for it.

  22. Anynomous says:

    By the way, Indiana resembles too much to a Russian doll called Nahema/Nagval/Cold/Frigid/Glamour-Gothic/No-Exista – there are other names to that narcissistic too.

  23. DNS cyberguy says:

    This guy here sounds like the ex-husband who vandalised Indiana’s wiki page. ha ha.

    you goddamn lying bitch!
    or do you only want to have the fans of other artists fined? (this guy thinks that he makes sense??)

    Or is it that you NOW don’t want your fan(not plural!) to be fined since you have only one (your overprotective loser new husband that likes to vandalise wikipedia) (it is her ex-husband who vandalised wikipedia and used her new husband’s name during the vandalisation.) and that one is not even sharing your work in the first place! (she has given the press print-outs of the downloads. I have just received them by fax as well).
    how do you explain your newest rantings with what you wrote last year? (The Kazaa case involved a woman who was transfering masses of files by the thousands. This is complete theft)

    you had a frontal lobotomy that alternated your character 180 degrees or what?

    ““Last year, in an article on Sky News, I read that a woman was fined a massive fine for file sharing on the Kazaa network. I thought, great!” ((The Kazaa case involved a woman who was transfering masses of files by the thousands. This is complete theft)

    (Since ex / stalker guy number 17 didn’t finish the phrase of what Indiana wrote when she said “I thought, great!” it is a classic example of constructing complete

    “So this (number 17) is a person who would take great pleasure in suing her fans into the ground. Any fans of such a vile and vindictive person need to have their heads examined.” yes, number 17, you sound very vile and very vindictive.

  24. Reader's Write says:

    “((The Kazaa case involved a woman who was transfering masses of files by the thousands. This is complete theft)”

    24 songs where only 7 were downlaoded at all by the “investigator”. Yeah, that is transfering “masses of files”

    You ART aka DNSCyberguy speak like a real MAFIAA shill!

    BTW it is so telling that you don’t react to the real questions but instead copy and paste stuff over and over again.

    Now have you made your mind up already what you are? Are you a journalist that recieve press print outs or are you a film maker? OR are you both at the same time?

    Anyhow, since you are deliberately trying to NOT answer valid questions that question your flwed arguments, I consider the interaction with you done. You are obvioulsy one of those guys that deserve to be mentally “fucked” by moral charcter swines like Melissa and Ian Morrow.
    Have a nice day.

  25. Reader's Write says:

    P.S. just for the sake of it to show how confused you are already that you can not even simply read stuff before it is EOD from here.
    Just read the sentence yourself carefully and you see that I did not left anything out or did not finish the sentence! (but you better look at copies not under the control of indi since it is already established that she will change stuff she posted once it starts bitting her in the butt! “Great book” for example!)

    Last year, in an article on Sky News, I read that a woman received a massive fine for file sharing on the KaZaA network. I thought, great! The police are coming.Then my husband sent me a link to another article titled “Should You Pay For Music?” I instantly thought … .eh? Has the world gone mad?
    Quote end taken from p2pnet.

  26. DNS Cyberguy says:

    Then she goes on to say that maybe she was ‘being too traditional” (ie: last year). She then explains that it isn’t about whether or not the public gets music for free or not. She clearly states in her original blog that she thinks that free music is a good thing. I don’t think it is myself though because I don’t think that the film industry will be able to survive if all our films are free. If you take everything out of context, you can find anythhing wrong with anything that has ever been written or discussed. I think that the internet is going to change soon.

  27. DNS Cyberguy says:

    wow. I think the ex/stalker is really pissed about being found out.

  28. Dave Fisher says:

    yes, the ex-hubby theory sounds validated. Making comments about her real name, then saying her new husband is ugly, then coming up with wiki entries that the ex was directly involved in. the ex/stalker sounds like a psychopath and makes himself sound like an idiot.

  29. DNS Cyberguy says:

    yeah, and he is also curiously based in Germany and the wiki IP address is from Germany. Bit too many coincidences there wouldn’t you say? Now he’s on another page claiming to be a Mod for The Pirate Bay. So, he’s a TPB sockpuppet too. This is epic.

  30. For the record says:

    For the record: http ://en. /wiki/Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Carribeanqueen

    Report submission by

    Admiral Norton (talk) 13:17, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
    Compare Special:Contributions/Carribeanqueen and Special:Contributions/Littleredm&m. All of their contributions revolve around the Indiana Gregg page. Also, Littleredm&m was created in early May ([1]), but became active only today, two days after Carribeanqueen’s activities ceased. This leads me to think Carribeanqueen uses sockpuppets to engage in a dispute.
    I have added to the list of suspected and recently active socks. The account “Littleredm&m” was created on May 19, 2007, a day after IanMorrow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log), the husband of Indiana Gregg, was blocked indefinitely for legal threats. These accounts most likely belong to him as he has continued editing the article also from IP addresses starting with 82.9.x.x ([2]). Prolog (talk) 14:07, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

  31. kdsde says:

    @ “DNScyperguy” and For The Record

    1) nice how you try to delute the playing field by posting at so many places while preventing to reacting to answer demands elsewhere! Nice tactic, but it will not work. To take the picture of Mr. Morow: you don’t win swordfights by running away hiding behind different bushes shouting stuff from there but don’t stand and “fight the swordfight!”.
    In case of the TPB issue of course not with real swords but with words/arguments and evidence/answers!

    2) yes DNS, go figure I’am indeed a mod at TPB and yes I am from germany but since the guy that fucked indiana without contraception did that according to her biography already so many years ago and they split up according to the same sources in 2003 already it would hardly be a match that me is the guy. Since you haven’t figured already: There are more then 80 millions of us germans. Just because that there were one idiot who fucked this downwardspiralchick indiana does not mean that “we are one” you know the germans are not the borg ;-)

    3) DNS cyberguy I see Reader’s Write is accusing you of being a “sockpuppet” of ART.
    Is he right with that accusation, and if this is the case can you tell me if ART will come back to the comment section at the p2pnet postings where he is confronted with clear questions? You know I am genuinely interested too if he is really so delusional minded in case he is a genuine 3rd person and not Ian or Indi or any other affiliate of those 2. Becuae I can’t beleive that someone clearly minded can really interpret the stuff that he did into the rantings/actions of Ian and Indi. Call it professional curiosity on my behalf if you will.

    4) so just that there is no doubt that what I say’s about being a TPB-MOD my nationality and that I did not fucked indi without contraception (Nor otherwise!) just go to the websitelink my “name” leads to and see a nice upload i will put in a few minutes specially for you and ART and all the other Morrow sockpuppets: HRK_-_Packt sie und zerhackt sie. Of course this will only prove that I am who I claim to be with respect to my “off duty” profession and not that i am NOT indi’s ex, But sometimes even the most paranoid and fucked up characters like Ian/Indi/Art/DNSCyberguy msut have a little trust in what others say ;-)

    P.S: you have something else to say? Then come to too since forumshopping is so annoying and i will otherwise just let you have here the last word if that pleases you :-)

  32. myweb says:

    Sunday, July 13, 2008

    History, economics, government…and file-sharing:

    Recently, I’ve received several hundred emails from a lot of angry people concerning a blog that I wrote that a site called “Torrent Freak” requested permission to republish. The messages I’ve received mostly go somewhat like this:

    “Dear Money Grabbing Blond bitch whore with sand in your vagina,

    Stupid blond, you have no idea how the internet works.
    The internet police will never be able to regulate something as popular as file-sharing. Do you really think that the government cares about a college student downloading files illegally when they have more important things to do like catching criminals?…I hate you and hope bad things happen to you because I don’t like your opinion”

    Anonymous person”

    Well, my answer is “yes”, I believe government is very interested. Basically, this whole file-sharing thing doesn’t have anything to do with Big Labels or artists wielding hefty lawsuits at their fans (which is crazy) because this whole p2p story has already shifted to government. That’s why I mentioned ‘fines’ rather than lawsuits in my original blog. To be honest, I didn’t threaten to sue the Pirate Bay (they just felt like putting the emails in their legal threats section and then wrote a big article about it in an effort to ‘humiliate’ as they try to do to anyone who doesn’t agree with them.)

    You see, this is certainly not about me or my music at all. The reason why I’ve written to all the torrent sites is because I think that government is planning to fine people for file-sharing and I don’t want any of my fans (or potential fans) to be fined because they downloaded an Indiana Gregg album. My reasons have to do with ethics and how I feel about my fans. In fact, it never had anything to do with me at all. But most of it does have everything to do with ‘YOU’, the file-sharer. The reality is that it’s now been placed in the hands of the governments. The G8 met last week. A lot of things have been happening. In fact, the governments have been watching and waiting. I’ll explain.

    First of all, let me just say that I think that the idea of music being ‘free’ is fantastic. I’m also not against file-sharing at all. I’ve never sued anybody in my life and I’m not about to start suing people now, especially not my fans! This is simply an open debate and the Pirate Bay chose to start a debate with me. So, I answered them in my personal blog. I don’t need any legal advice for this. We all know that debate brings us together and usually brings about some solutions. Anyway, here’s my theory spelled out in terms of “history, government, and simple economics”.


    So, how can something as popular as file-sharing be interesting for governments to get involved in? and Where will they get the ‘resources’ to regulate it?… The answer is, they will get the resources from “YOU”. Here’s what I believe they are planning.

    Does anybody remember the Model-T Ford and the assembly line Ford created? Since then, how popular has the automobile become? How many government jobs did it create? And where did the ‘resources’ come from? Well, let’s think about it. Here’s a short list:

    Fuel exports and imports
    Taxes on Fuel
    The rising cost of commodities due to a tax on fuel
    Parking tickets
    Speeding tickets
    Drunk driving fines
    Licenses, license plates, etc. (this list could go on forever)

    How much money have governments been able to generate by that little assembly line that popularised the automobile? And where did they (government) get the money?

    (hint: the government got the money/resources from YOU and I. That’s right. The tax payers and the ‘fine’ payers.)

    So, how many government jobs do you think they could they create with the internet? Be honest with yourself. How many cars are there in the world and how many computers are in the world? Well, you tell me. Are there more cars than computers?

    The problem p2p is facing has to do with history, government and economics. Since we’ve all heard how history repeats itself, why don’t we now take a look at the internet as an example.

    In the timeframe between the moment Torrent Freak asked me if they could re-post my blog and the present, there have been several other news releases. Not just the G8 summit and their plans to crack down on piracy, but, also the result of the Viacom/ Youtube lawsuit, letters from Virgin and the BPI to their users, the “3 strikes and your out ” debate in France and Canada (and the list goes on). What do I know about the future? Well, the following prophecy I’m about to make seems as clear as day.

    I’ve been watching this internet debate unravel for many years now and let’s face it, from an outsider’s point of view (mine), I can see how it would be pretty easy for government to step in and regulate. Remember, the ‘internet’ started out as a bunch of servers on US military bases and University campuses. In fact, regulating the internet is almost as easy as reducing art and music to “0’s” and “1’s” and duplicating files. In fact, the government doesn’t even need to invest or find resources for this one. Why? Because they have “YOU”. The government plans to fine you in the same way they did with parking fines and the automobile… only now, it will cost them less money because the internet is, (simply put), made up of a bunch of numbers. In this case, your IP address is making it a cake-walk for them. (Sure, you can encrypt it. But, most encryptions can also be decrypted. And yes, an IP address can be stolen. How do you think hackers break into security systems on the net? But, that’s another kettle of fish, so, for now, let’s talk about one person: you.)

    Basically, how can government regulate file-sharing? The answer is simple: They will be able to do it the same way they’ve done it throughout history. As the economy continues to shift towards telecommunications and internet-based business, don’t you think government is likely to move there too? You may argue “they simply don’t have the resources”… You see, this isn’t about artists and labels suing their fans. (That’s just silly.) Nobody is going to sue you. Rather, the government plans to ‘warn’ you about something that you are doing that is presently illegal (ie: copyright infringement via file-sharing) and then, they plan to slap a little fine on every file-sharer and force the ISP’s to turn over your IP address when you break the law. (IP address: well, it’s kind of the new Internet Passport… yes, stupid blond here does know that IP stands for Internet Protocol in this instance). Ok, they’ve already begun with the “three strikes rule” (which is ridiculous.) It’s like giving somebody a life sentence for committing a few traffic violations. Nonsensical. I don’t see how that one will work in the long-run either. However, what I do see is government easily using you, the file-sharer, as a resource and meanwhile creating a whole new crew of internet police.

    Listen, I’m just the messenger here. I’ve just given you some insight into where I see this heading and why. Do I think it’s fair? Well, of course not. I said that at the beginning. Do I think music should be free? Sure I do, I think it’s a great idea. However, I think that creators should be able to at least make enough money to reinvest into their art. I also think that it’s unfair for a website or torrent search engine to fool their users by making statements about how their site is ‘legal’ in in their country (but, not necessarily telling you that file-sharing of copyright material is still ‘illegal’ even in Sweden and in most of the world). I think they must know what the government is planning. We’d all be blind not to see this probability/possibility?

    Will they pity you once government kicks in with their plan? Probably not, that’s why I’m asking these sites to take links to my music down. I don’t want my fans (or potential ones) to be fined for sharing my music. So, by asking the torrents to take down a link, I’m hoping that my fans will find my music for free on sites that are legal and free. You see, I like my fans a lot and I don’t want them to be fined. Every single one of my fans are important to me.

    Am I telling you the truth? Well, this is just a theory at the moment. So, what if I’m wrong? Well, I could very well be wrong about this…. But, what if I’m right?

    15:21 – 20 Comments – 24 Kudos – Add Comment – Edit – Remove –
    Scorpius Poeticus

    Well said Indie…..I see the logic. When governments focus on behaviours that they disapprove of but fond difficult to stop… they react by taxing it… in Britain… alcohol, smoking, minor, driving offences, gas-guzzling cars…. see Car Tax retrospective hike due in March 2009..

    Thoughtful and sincere as you always are,

    regards John

    Posted by Scorpius Poeticus on 13 Jul 2008, 16:24
    [Remove] [Reply to this]
    Scorpius Poeticus

    PS. re “Dear Money Grabbing Blond …”

    Gratuitous disparagement and offence is the refruge of the odiously inept.

    Posted by Scorpius Poeticus on 13 Jul 2008, 16:25
    [Remove] [Reply to this]
    Indiana Gregg

    you know, the money grabbing blond bitch comments don’t phase me. That’s simply people hiding behind ‘mr. anonymous’, what’s really surprised me most about this exercise is that people don’t have a grasp about what is already happening at all. They are not informed, and yet, they have so much to say. That worries me. What it means is that the new internet culture is relatively faceless. in this new world of internet ‘freedom’ that a lot of these people say they want… where is the sense of community? That’s scary.

    Posted by Indiana Gregg on 13 Jul 2008, 22:13
    [Remove] [Reply to this]
    Sally Hope

    Very astute Indiana and especially cool because ‘Oh my god your just a mere woman’!! Yes your a woman with brains and that is scary to people who havn’t even ‘thought’ about ‘how’ it could go!
    How can anyone wish horrible things to another person just because they disagree about what they say! that is bullyish and I truly believe that you get back what you give out.

    You rock! and are a very genuine person! You deserve all the sucess you have created and to be paid for your beautiful music.
    Who can argue with that? Sally xxxx

    Posted by Sally Hope on 13 Jul 2008, 16:25
    [Remove] [Reply to this]
    Paul 92107

    Brilliantly written. You are obviously a well educated, deep thinking woman who happens to have blonde hair, not a “Money Grabbing Blond bitch whore with sand in your vagina”.

    Posted by Paul 92107 on 13 Jul 2008, 17:09
    [Remove] [Reply to this]
    LeChatdOsiris® Talent Booster!!!


    They Can’t Understand What A Woman Is… Blond! Or Not Blond…!

    Let’s Felt Down People Who Just Want To Be What They Are Not, What They Can’t Be…!

    Host unlimited photos at for FREE!

    You’re Most Beautiful & Brilliant Than Many Others… Don’t Care…

    And… Don’t Loose Your Time To Bad Things Or Bad Vibes…

    … Don’t You Have New Beautiful Songs, New Beautiful Videos, New Beautiful Pictures, New Beautiful Ideas… To Let Us Know… To Write… To Create… ;)

    We Want See You Enjoying Our Life Indy!!!

    Make Us Dreaming!!! Make Us Loving!!! More & More…

    Why??? Just Because We Love YoU!!! You! YOU, you & yoU…

    Let’s Dance The Musics On Our Heart… To Make Life More Lighting…!



    Posted by LeChatdOsiris® Talent Booster!!! on 13 Jul 2008, 17:31
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    Hi Indiana they are some very harsh comments you have received, people don’t need to agree with you but it doesn’t mean they need to resort to bullying because thats all they are doing.

    If the government want to stop them then they will because if they fine every person for doing it because everyone is aware it’s illegal to do so they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on so they would make a fortune by fining everyone that does it.

    Ignore all the comments because you know what you are doing is right and most people will support you.

    Take Care XOXO

    Posted by IAN on 13 Jul 2008, 18:28
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    I just fell in love with you’re mind~! (and what kind of human being would want something bad to happen to someone because they disagree with them?) Let alone “hate you”? I find it disheartening and this really upsets me to the point of sadness, that this is in our world to this day. Pay no never-mind to an evil soul who speaks such rubbish. You are a beautiful mind that god has graced our world with and we need more of such as you’re kind my lady. Please pardon said fools.

    Dwayne Boone

    Posted by Boondog on 13 Jul 2008, 18:29
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    You know Indy, when I read your file and saw what you have gone through, in your life, to be where your at, I was very impressed and then fell in love with you and your music! Now, once again, you have impressed me with the strength of your thoughts and how well you put them on paper, with out a tune to back them up ! Very well written with very strong words.

    I hope that the hate mongers go through some transition in their lives, so that they can realize how mean spirited they are.

    Posted by KvnDean on 13 Jul 2008, 19:38
    [Remove] [Reply to this]
    Cιαяe Louise Smiтн ♥

    Go you!
    The person who wrote that obviously was a pathetic person who had nothing else to do with their time, thus the childish insults.

    Much love Indiana :)
    Clare xx

    Posted by Cιαяe Louise Smiтн ♥ on 13 Jul 2008, 19:44
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    Sand in your vagina????? OMG! I hate it when that happens! LOL
    Very astute observations my friend. And to think that a woman with a sandy vagina could have such a grasp on the situation. Brains and beauty…WATCH OUT!!!
    Funny how the ignorant seem to have the most to say and with all the words they use, say nothing at all…they only show their own ignorance.

    You are a very genuine person, you’ve paid your dues and fought for your place in the sun. You do deserve all the sucess you have and to be paid for your beautiful music.

    Always Stay True To Who You Are…


    Posted by Natalie on 13 Jul 2008, 21:20
    [Remove] [Reply to this]
    Dave Elmore

    I agree with you when it comes to the file sharing issue but when it comes to society and the changes made within it, I’m very concerned about the way some people treat others via the internet! That message you received or any others like it came from an individual hiding behind the internet. I believe that if you need to hide to say something, what you need more is to keep your mouth shut.
    These people were obviously not raised by my parents!

    Posted by Dave Elmore on 13 Jul 2008, 21:21
    [Remove] [Reply to this]
    UK Lady

    What a nasty individual,
    But like you say they are hiding behind the ‘Mr Anonymous’ title, that really takes a lot of guts.

    Take care x

    Posted by UK Lady on 14 Jul 2008, 01:12
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    Anything that is illegal must be somehow put a stop to or those who are producing it get hurt and many people take advantage of what they can steal for free! Universal Laws of Hman Rights will be a future way of regulating things. Human Rights has no boudary of earth or sky and space. So, the G8 should pay attention and so should United Nations to what I have proposed which is Universal Laws ofHuman Rights for Leadership Excellence and people Power and Reform for a safe and free world.
    Freedom is not taking advantage of others!
    And as for what they have called you for 12 years they have put me on the cross of ignorance and no one has said a word. They say as long as they can bully they will and that is what we must put a stop to.
    Humanity and compasson is the answer not bullyism & lies!

    Posted by Rose on 14 Jul 2008, 01:13
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    Well said. Do you think they will listen? History proves that the masses do not learn from the past, so they will likely get caught up in this change, as well.

    Posted by KJ on 14 Jul 2008, 01:14
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    Dear beautiful, ethical, talented, brilliant blonde (:D)-

    BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!! My love, all I can say is: Let them show what’s wrong and uninformed and cowarldly and assinine in this world, that’s their bad. YOU…show them what’s possible.
    :D <3

    Still here, still lovin’ ya!

    Posted by Karen on 14 Jul 2008, 01:14
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    You’re a rare commodity. Beauty, talent and, dare I say it, blonde hair on one side and on the other side a woman that can prove she is extremely intelligent. A deadly combination. You made your points very clear and either people will accept them or think you’re just some dumb blonde. If you believe in what you say then I say to hell with what the others think.

    A side note I do believe the person who called you those names was completely out of line and a coward for not leaving a name. Makes me think I know who’s ignorant.

    Take care of your self Indie.


    Posted by Paul on 14 Jul 2008, 01:20
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    well said…love it!

    Posted by Lee on 14 Jul 2008, 01:20
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    I want to congratulate you on your opinion. I would recommend that you ignore the uninformed people who attacked you. P2P can be stopped without net police.

    Please visit www. safemedia. com. This company produces a network appliance which stops over 650 P2P clients. This is a proof that P2P can be stopped. Many companies, schools and higher education institutions have purchased and implemented this device.

    P2P will be stopped because it is harmful to the internet; It uses an overlay routing layer which interrupt the internet normal routing. For the benefit of few thieves we all are paying a higher cost to use the internet. Freedom is infringing on other people rights.

    Posted by Youshi on 14 Jul 2008, 16:05
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

    No offence to Youshi, but I personally don’t think that stopping P2P is the answer.

    What about all the legitimate use for P2P? That’s like banning all cars because drink driving kills.

    You ban P2P then a new technology springs up – probably developed by the IT experts who were legitimately using P2P that you’ve P!$$ed off by banning it!

    The problem isn’t torrents, it’s the fact that a lot of people today have no respect for anyone else. I don’t think that the old line about people not realising that downloading is theft isn’t true any more, I think people do know that what they are doing is wrong, they just don’t care. They want, they take.

    Fixing that will take a lot more than just banning a protocol.

    As for the abuse that Indiana was subjected to, well I think it says more about the person she is for the way she’s handled it than it does about the low lifes that were sending it.

    Posted by Tony on 14 Jul 2008, 17:13
    [Remove] [Reply to this]

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  33. Dave Fisher says:

    @For the Record:

    I had a look and it looks more like the wikieditor2008 guy is a sockpuppet with the admiral
    and SoWhy because it looks like wikieditor only joined a few days ago after his first edits
    (his IP address is in the history and it’s a german IP address). It looks like the wikieditor2008 has a conflict of interest because he makes some pretty biased and ridiculous comments in the ‘discussion’ part of the article between the editors.

    thats’ my 2cents.

  34. DNS cyberguy says:

    @kdsde: I don’t appreciate you accusing me of not being myself. I am ART, however, my user name on this system is DNS cyberguy. Since you are a mod for TPB, it would seem that YOU are a sockpuppet.

    I guess what I’ve written isn’t very convenient for you and obviously what Indiana wrote must have really pissed you guys off. I guess you don’t like it if your users find out that you make money through advertising and tell everyone that the site is legal (without telling them that file-sharing of copyright is ILLEGAL). A few days ago I was wondering whether I should use file-sharing for my films. Now, I think it’s a waste of time because you TPB people are just fat cats sucking away at young indepedent film maker’s chance at a livelihood because no nobody wants to invest in independent films.

    sorry, I’m not a complete wank who sits in front of my computer all day waiting for you to ask me a question you idiot. As for you, I think you have some more personal issues mr. kdsde and it is clear that unless you are a complete psychopath (or Sunde, because he probably likes reading about himself, since he seems to be constantly making PR for himself), or you are an ex. It all rings like one : “ugly ex”, “I know Indiana’s real name (which, I don’t even know, maybe it is her real name. Researched it, didn’t find it), “history of wikipedia (which apparently the ex was vandalising last year), combined with a lot of emotional language (nearing hatred) of someone you claim not to know? I don’t think that even someone from TPB would be
    that bitter. I mean, since she’s so ‘stupid’ and things like they claim.

    Sorry mate, you’re definitely the ex.


  35. DNS cyberguy says:

    aww. this is a funny little twist from the p2p net pages:
    T. Duffy Says:

    July 15th, 2008 at 5:37 am
    It is in the ‘discussion’ part of the article which looks like discussions between yourself wikieditor2008 (who suddenly became
    an editor just after an entry from a german IP address in the ‘history’ of the postings in the article).

    You can also easily write to the source, Ms. Gregg, who’s email address is published in several places on the web (this is what I did).
    She has sent me a good deal of information including emails between herself and a wiki editor who intervened regarding the vandalism.

    She was also able to send me a document that was sent to her ex. So, I now know the name and address of the ex. It isn’t very difficult to source information if you want it.


  36. "fat catting it" says:

    Unfortunately for the person writing this article, immoral and illegal don’t always coincide, as well as both being in the eye of the beholder. If my country doesn’t make file sharing illegal, but your country does, that is what we might call, “your problem”. You can “attempt” to get the site shut off to users in “your area”, however, there are plenty of back-door apps making it seem like you’re coming from a different country, that can easily take care of that. And as you said, encryption, it is a bitch.

  37. For the record says:

    Incorrect conclusions are derived from incorrect premises and incorrect reasoning. What perversion of reason leads someone to weave such a moronic, fascistic, and utterly wrong statement from so many varieties of ignorance, and hurl it into the internet? A massive sense of entitlement, a severe empathy deficit, and an incomprehensible disrespect for freedom. If a person seriously believes their source of income must be preserved at any cost, even if it means having the governments of the world eliminate privacy and liberty on the internet, a crowning achievement of humanity which has become so valuable precisely because of its freedom, they are mentally defective—and an ego that large obviously doesn’t leave much room for intelligence. What Gregg proposes is so outrageous, we must question the firmness of her grip on reality. The rest of us will not stand to see the revolutionary medium of the internet virtually destroyed, just to cater to the whims of a bankrupt lunatic millionaire.

    Indiana Gregg, it seems nobody has told you this, but somebody must: You are not that important. Not even close.

  38. For the record says:

    “When your only weapons are lawsuits, everyone looks like a defendant.”

    rmuser, The Banality of Gregg (2008)

    To Indiana Gregg, Ian Morrow, Littleredm&m, Carribeanqueen, Tim Hardwell, generationx, and whoever you’ll be masquerading as tomorrow: What is wrong with you? I’m honestly curious. What could possibly make you think this was a good idea? That’s precisely the problem with your ignorance of contemporary technology: When you try pulling a stupid stunt like this, you’ll be caught in the act by people more capable than yourselves. This advice will serve you well in any situation: If you don’t know how something works, don’t touch it. Maybe instead of legally threatening Wikipedia for no reason, flagrantly disregarding its guidelines and attempting to hide behind different names, you should just stop. Stop it. Stop all of this, right now. This is not the behavior people expect from professionals, and it speaks very poorly of you when you’re unwilling to even defend yourselves using your real names.

    I suppose that’s the responsible thing to say, but on the other hand, this sort of insanity is hilarious! Keep it up.

  39. @For the record says:

    to “For The Record”. WTF? What a weird post. Where does it come from? I just came here tonight after reading a couple of blogs and happened to look at the discussion on the wikipedia of indiana gregg after reading some miscellaneous comments. I don’t see much there that seems to relate to some of the comments I’ve read. Additionally, what’s this all about? What a strange rant. “For the Record” seems very unfocused on the topic of the above article.

    I was amused by the information about ‘laser’ printers being accused by P2P downloading. I’m impressed that anyone would invest their time or money into a next generation of P2P software development?? why?? Do p2p sites want to commit total financial suicide? have any of you been following up on the recent actions and shut-downs?

  40. @@For the record says:

    The focus of this topic is Indiana Gregg and how she masters the Internet. So far, it was a total failure.

  41. IndianaJones says:

    @DNS CyberGuy:
    I don’t know why, but you are stupid or confident enough to deny the identity we gave you. After all – who else would write:
    Since you are a mod for TPB, it would seem that YOU are a sockpuppet.
    You know – you aren’t a sockpuppet if you have accounts all over the web; it’s multiple accounts on the same page – Wikipedia, to be exact. So this is quite the same as saying as a kid to a kid: Noooo, you are [insert insult, that other kid gave you]!! Childish.

    Indiana (or Ian), we KNOW that TPB makes money of advertising. They also make money with donations. Yes, we know that and we don’t really care. I mean, they have a lot of shit to take care of. So back to your quote:
    I guess you don’t like it if your users find out that you make money through advertising and tell everyone that the site is legal (without telling them that file-sharing of copyright is ILLEGAL).

    Back to legality – TPB is legal in Sweden, where it’s situated. It is legal to eat dogs in Canada. Both statements are correct even though a lot of people will not agree with it (I’d fsck up the one who tries to eat my dog). You see where this goes? LEGAL in GB and legal in Sweden is not the same thing.

    Ok I’m going for the gem of your quote:
    without telling them that file-sharing of copyright is ILLEGAL

    File-sharing of copyright? Ahahahahaha!!! Come on, it’s funny! You did intend to be funny, right?

  42. Pingback: Letter and response « Amused Cynicism

  43. XweAponX says:

    “people, the reason I write to torrent sites to have links to my music taken down has nothing to do with whether or not those people would’ve bought my music or not.”

    Well, I personally do not think you have that problem anymore, because your husband has made a fool of you and I do not think people would be caught dead with links to your page. Happy now?

    Also, you took on Wikipedia with the same verve that you attacked TPB – And Wikipedia is a PUBLIC WEBSITE, meaning you cannot use it for any PRIVATE USE. So you have no call at all to complain when anyone in the world can create a wikipedia account and deface what they percieve is an article made by an idiot.

  44. Franscesco Rodriguez says:

    Just was wondering. If TPB was legal in Sweden, why were they sentenced to jail? thanks.

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